[7] Ignition magnetos were largely replaced by ignition coils once batteries became common in cars, since a battery-operated coil can provide a high-voltage spark even at low speeds, making starting easier.[8]. wish to 'demystify and simplify' wherever we can, so The contact points which are mounted onto the end of the armature shaft, used to time the breaking of the primary winding current, will become pitted and worn, especially so if the capacitor is faulty. Trademark Office. Clean and grease the moving-point pivot. Magneto parts We also sell our Brightspark range of specially-selected, top-quality, British-made slip rings and pick-ups for Lucas and BTH magnetos. Brightspark Magnetos Ltd disclaims responsibility for any errors A really nice one will jump 1/2"or better. Check out our magneto armature winding service. -- misfiring, particularly at higher revs and fully open throttle, or when opening the throttle. Once [6], The first car to use magneto ignition was the 1901 German Mercedes 35 hp racing car, followed by various cars produced by Benz, Mors, Turcat-Mery, and Nesseldorf. Replace if necessary. The resistance between the two sides of the circuit board (with your fingers well clear) should climb to in excess of 2 G (2000 M). Free access to service and repair I know a great starting engine will fire a plug with 3/16" gap when external of a cylinder. Rotate the armature and check that the contact- breaker spring never touches the cam. (Chinese) DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS IF YOU ARE FITTED WITH A PACEMAKER, OR HAVE A HEART CONDITION, OR IF YOU REALLY HATE ELECTRIC SHOCKS. Don't want this buried as I 'm hoping for some possible answers today. Remove the cam, carefully noting which way round it goes and which notches in it engage where. Learn how and when to remove this template message, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ignition_magneto&oldid=1150712364, Short description is different from Wikidata, Articles with unsourced statements from January 2023, Articles needing additional references from January 2023, All articles needing additional references, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 19 April 2023, at 18:38. We would recommend having the transformer coil rewound as modern class F or H wires and insulations are superior to the ones used at the time it was originally made and would almost certainly give you another 40 years of good service. Remagnetisation - Brightspark Magnetos item. Put 2 hours of flawless time on the bench. Two beveled teeth on drive gear(which are generally parallel to flat for shaft it fits on) should go to mark on rotor which is under lead out finger. This video details the work done to the magneto so far. Brightspark Magnetos Ltd disclaims responsibility for any With the plugs in the engine connect one plug outside like you have been testing it to confirm no spark, If there is spark present I would open the gap of an old spark plug to 3/16" and see if the spark will jump that gap. To help magneto owners look after their magnetos A simple magneto (an electrical generator using permanent magnets) is able to produce relatively low voltage electricity, however it is unable to produce the high voltages required by a spark plug as used in most modern engines (aside from diesel engines). It's a 6v system, so the starter turns rather slowly (maybe 80rpm), but I think it should be fast enoughto start. The magneto gives a good spark when spun by hand or when kicked over with the plugs removed. The voltage generated in the primary winding is a product of its velocity through the magnetic field and the strength of that field, so the condition of the magnet is vital for the correct performance of the magneto. books, learndpapers and patents on To contact injunmort simply click on his name and the forum will display his e-mail address, Helge. 2. If an earth brush is fitted behind the back-plate, check that the spring is good, that the brush is free to move and that it is not unduly worn in length or diameter. wish to make the required puller tool load correctly in the translated versions of the pages. Blue spark is great but if it can only jump .03" when external of a cylinder with no compression pressureswhen you add the compression and fuel mix it will fall on its face. The reading should be substantially the same as the reading you obtained in the internal HT continuity section. Just to reinforce a point here of something very well done that you did in the how-to: when you're testing a mag like this, ALWAYS have the plug wires hooked up with a gap (or plugs) to ground so that energy has somewhere to go. The use of ignition magnetos is now confined mainly to engines without a battery, for example in lawnmowers and chainsaws. 0000009971 00000 n is it rebuilt? In the type known as a shuttle magneto, the engine rotates a coil of wire between the poles of a magnet. errors in the translations. Over time the HT leads can degrade and reduce the potential difference at the spark plug. of which is the product of Brightspark Magnetos Ltd's By but enjoy doing it, with confidence, relying on the Please note: THEY ARE NOT FOR SALE! With twin- or multi-cylinder magnetos, and some single-cylinder magnetos, the brass is a segment, rather than a complete ring, and you may need to rotate the armature in order to be able to see it. SR1, SR2 & SR4 magnetos (workshop instructions) With a multimeter, check the resistance between the brass of the slip ring and the end of the armature shaft (armature earth). detailed guide to maintaining and Joined: Oct 2009. He got it and thought the ring the points rides in came out and just needed pushed in. Your mag likely has a bad condensor. As the magnet moves with respect to the coil, the magnetic flux linkage of the coil changes. If you have identified the magneto as the source of your ignition fault send it to us for repair. fitted, the EasyCap becomes a routine service Do similar tests with the HT lead(s) and the plug-cap(s). Once the insulation has been broken down once, it often makes it easier for it to be broken down again. The last of these possible reasons is very often the cause. I'm thinking the magneto is weak even though it was rebuilt with new condenser.. detailed instructions in our 'condensectomy' Nous 0000002409 00000 n These are prone to deterioration and the cause of many ignition faults. The Magneto Guys - Vintage, Veteran, Classic Magneto Repairs Lucas Magnetos We have overhauled and repaired these Lucas magnetos and then returned them to their owners. PDF LUCAS MAGNETOS - edknet.de If I was working on it, first I would want a 5/16" air gap consistent spark minimum from the coil terminal to ground. replacement for the condenser (capacitor) in Any high tension magneto will have way more than 7 ohms resistance on the secondary circuit. 0000002847 00000 n 0000003777 00000 n (Chinese) U.S. agrees to $5 million settlement over police killing of Bijan The reading should be between 0.5 and 0.7 ohms greater than your first reading. From time to time we have complete If you can see the slip-ring through the pick-up hole in the main housing, check that the brass ring or segment of the slip-ring is brass coloured (albeit possibly a bit dirty or tarnished), but not completely black. Magneto services dynamos, regulators, alternators and Copyright 2023, Antique Automobile Club of America. 5.5 mm (220 thou) THREE-POINT SPARK GAP. Mechanical - Bearings, insulation, washers and shimming the armature. However, if the outside of the pick-up is also oily, perhaps its all caused by an engine oil leak. Common Faults on Magnetos Timing Lucas K2F and K2FC Magneto | Jockey Journal Forum Lister D Magneto Lucas RS1 full rebuild but still no spark - YouTube I'd need to install it in the chassis or rig up something to do that. 0000005012 00000 n 0000006861 00000 n Since the beginning of World War I in 1914, magneto-equipped aircraft engines have typically been dual-plugged, whereby each cylinder has two spark plugs, with each plug having a separate magneto system. pages on how to do that. long practical experience of working on magnetos and With Lucas devices, the fixing hole at one end of the contact-breaker spring is slotted so that the effective length of the spring can be adjusted as necessary. anglais, votre convenance. Are suppressors and resistor sparking plugs OK to use with magnetos? The Lucas magdyno and magneto units fitted to all AMC machines after 1939 had Nifal magnets which are not demagnetised by removal of the armature. slip rings and pick-ups for Lucas and BTH You can check the latter by removing the pick-up(s), rotating the armature in the proper direction until the points are just opening, and checking that the brass is visible directly underneath the pick-up hole (or one of the pick-up holes) in the magneto body. However, if the reading is more than 7000 ohms, there is probably either a break in the HT winding, or a bad connection between the live end of the HT winding and the slip-ring. Check the state of the points surfaces. Lucas Magneto Bearing Shim Pack 15mm | E15 | N3048 | K1F | SR | K2F . use in our workshop for magneto servicing A good Wico X series mag will jump at least 3/8" air gap. Sign up for a new account in our community. Svensk in the translations. 0000001015 00000 n heavier the better. Translations provided by the Google Translate service. startxref Svensk Deutsch magneto electronic ignition conversion, repairs Lucas & BTH, 5 year If your magneto is loosing spark after a short amount of time running, or is hard to start it is most likely a condenser failure. That then produces a gap of about 4 mm between the centre electrode and the screw-threaded bit of the plug body. Links to some interesting yourselves. When the magneto is supposed to fire, the flyweights are released by the action of the body contacting the trigger ramp. i found that is a cheaper, easier way to go than doing it my self with refurbished parts. In the late 1890s, English engineer Frederick Richard Simms and German engineer Robert Bosch developed the first practical high-tension magneto. I pulled my B34 out after the winter and could not get it started. After 20 miles the ignition is down to zero. Lucas workshop instructions - magnetos Library Robert Bosch Documentation American Bosch workshop instructions Patents Books and learnd papers Workshop instructions - Lucas magnetos N1, KN1, K1F, K2F, KVF MO1L, MN2L Redesigned contact breaker for ring cam models SR magnetos (general info.) Make sure they are there and can move in their holders and give them a good clean. Lucas vertical magneto in good condition and sparking. Armoto LtdRegistered & Trading Address:Unit 26, M1 Commerce Park, Markham Lane, Duckmanton, Chesterfield S44 5HSTelephone: 01246 826667 | sales@armoto.co.ukRegistered in England Company No. Initially this was done because it was easier to provide good insulation for the secondary winding of an external coil than it was in a coil buried in the construction of the magneto (early magnetos had the coil assembly externally to the rotating parts to make them easier to insulateat the expense of efficiency). 0000001320 00000 n This disables the magneto to reduce the risk of electric shock and fire. If the brass is black, it indicates that the brush(es) are too soft and/or years of neglect. I also needed a new coil for it which I installed, cleaned the mag up and replaced any bits it needed. A capacitor is placed across the points which absorbs the energy stored in the leakage inductance of the primary coil, and slows the rise time of the primary winding voltage to allow the points to open fully. Place a clean piece of strong paper between the points, and with the points closed pull the paper out. To maintain a dedicated website that covers the replace it with an EasyCap. An ignition magneto (also called a high-tension magneto) is an older type of ignition system used in spark-ignition engines (such as petrol engines). The original coil may be reusable, although it is susceptible to faults - as described in our section: common problems on magnetos. making your own bearing and slip-ring pullers; If your multimeter can measure capacitance, the reading should be within 10% of: 150 nF (0.15 uF) for the C01, C02, C03, C05 and CU/150 EasyCaps; 220 nF (0.22 uF) for the C06, C07 and CU/220 EasyCaps. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Magnetic - Check magnetism and Remagnetise magneto body. If excessively worn, replace the heel (BTH), or the moving-point assembly (Lucas). Could be bad parts if spark just gets a lot weaker but if spark totally goes away when cap and rotor are installed, be sure the when you install them it does not short out the primary, give the rotor a closer ground to jump to or hold the points open, etc. V-TWINS Magnetos are always a compromise, usually producing a strong spark to one cylinder and a weaker one to the other. You need to confirm that the condenser has failed AND that replacing it will solve the problem. Great write up, with video even! Copyright 2000-2020 by, ---------- Post added at 08:44:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:39:49 AM ----------. If it does not jump 3/16" it probably will not fire a cylinder under compression. To have the discharge go arc back into the coil itself or the mag housing causes some serious damage. grade to avoid carbon deposits on the slip The likely culprits are: Set the timing of the ignition in accordance with the machines handbook. Italiana The family of Bijan Ghaisar, shot dead by two U.S. Park Police officers as he slowly drove his Jeep Grand Cherokee away from them in 2017, agreed to settle their lawsuit against the . tour of some of our specialised workshop a separate spring-loaded holder (Lucas) or hidden at the back of the contact breaker plate (BT-H). old-style capacitor (the 'condensectomy') and "Specializing in Triumph and other fine Vintage motorcycles". Tri-Spark Ignitions; Pazon Ignitions; Lucas Rita; AGM Batteries For Classics; Lucas Alternators; Rectifiers & Voltage Control; Dynamo Parts; Magneto Parts; Lucas SR Magneto Spares; HT Coils For Classic Bikes; British Bike Points & Condensers; . From the basic to the complex - some If you are sure that all earth brushes are removed, and if either the magneto has a fibre drive pinion or the drive pinion/sprocket has been removed, you can now check the effectiveness of the bearing insulators. Some have both types of earth brush. When screwed in the head, however, the plugs make no spark. With an open circuit the device has no CAPACITY to absorb the reaction voltage (back EMF) from the coil, therefore this energy is dissipated across the timing contact which quickly burns away. Twin sparks provide two flame fronts within the cylinder, these two flame fronts decreasing the time needed for the fuel charge to burn. Dual plugs provide both redundancy should a magneto fail, and better engine performance (through enhanced combustion). This dissipates the energy that was stored in the condenser in time for the next closure of the points, leaving the condenser discharged and ready to repeat the cycle. A fair amount maintenance and troubleshooting of a magneto can be done with the magneto in situ and without any special tools or equipment other than a multimeter. BTW, Michael, that's a darn clever trick/solution! How to 'Kill' a Lucas KVF Magneto? - Vincent H.R.D. Owners Club Forum Undo the contact-breaker centre-screw and remove the contact-breaker assembly. Click on a button to see magnetos from other manufacturers Bosch BTH Others Click on any picture to get a larger view Our Please get in contact if you know anything about aerograph compressors especially if you have technical drawings.Last, but not least, if you want to receive notifications when more videos in this series are uploaded please subscribe to the channel. Magneto advice - lucas rf4 in vedette engine | YBW Forum 0000001569 00000 n With the earth brush(es) now replaced, measure the resistance between the back-plate of the contact breaker assembly and the main body of the magneto. On many Rolls Royce models there is a dual ignition system. In a modern installation, the magneto only has a single low tension winding which is connected to an external ignition coil which not only has a low tension winding, but also a secondary winding of many thousands of turns to deliver the high voltage required for the spark plug(s). This allows the spring to unwind giving the rotating magnet a rapid rotation and letting the magneto spin at such a speed to produce a spark. With the engine running, place your hand over the pick-up with the same hand also touching the magneto body. Nearly all magnetos have a gasket between the pick-up and the magneto body (a) to prevent water entry and (b) to set the correct clearance between the pick-up holder and the slip ring. Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. pouvons vous aider soit en franais, soit en When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. If there are any, replace the pick-up. and just how were you able to find one of those bastards that still worked?!?!?! Rotate the armature until the contact-breaker points are open. The plugs are non resistor, gaped at -025", and are new. Post in the forum instead. Problems rooted in the magneto are sometimes obvious, or can seem like all sorts of other things. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. If there is a quickly-detachable connection between the HT lead and pick-up, undo it and check the condition of the connection. Then check that the contact-breaker assembly is not wobbly on the end of the shaft. Points and contacts cleaned, and wires tested for continuity. If you are using an auto-advance timing gear, stuff a length of fuel line in the mech to hold it at full . Hi group, It is summer in Denmark, nice but my Lucas KF2 Magneto do not like high temperatures. We shall resume operations as soon as we possibly can. Alnico, the material most often used to fabricate early magnets has a tendency to lose its induced magnetic field over time due to various causes. First test is to take the plug caps off the HT leads and position the ends of the HT leads 1/4" away from the casting. I have seen that a lot on FM mags. Language links are at the top of the page across from the title. At least I assume so: My timing light (seen in photo clamped to plug wire #1) illuminates correctly when plug #1 is unscrewed from the engine and sparks, but it does not light up when the plug is screwed into the engine. Lucas magneto problems? NEW CHEAP solution to bad condensor Excellent "how-to". Posts: 34. With the points fully open, adjust the points gap to 0.012 (0.3 mm). At any one time, we reckon to This Lucas KVF magneto was rebuilt 7,000 miles ago and failed at around 3,000 miles with loss of spark on one cylinder. As the field collapses rapidly there is a large voltage induced (as described by Faraday's Law) across the primary coil. If you have an auto-ranging meter, the reading might jump about a bit on the way while it changes scales. It appears that magnetio does not have in impulse coupling which means the engine must turn over much faster to develop as hot a spark as if there was an impulse. Having set the timing with the points opening on one cam lobe, you should check that it is also correct with the points opening on the other cam lobe. Dansk While holding it in that position, tighten the centre screw, but do not use undue force. Ignition - Check Spark strength, Spark timing and . I have tried both Champion and NGK plugs. If higher than that, investigate. performance. We recommend using non-resistive (copper) cable and unsuppressed plug caps. "Colonel fair is fair: if I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye can I go home too?". If necessary, dress the points on a fine stone. PA. This can mask a fault on these cars as the vehicle will continue to run until the other fails. [2] An ignition magneto also includes an electrical transformer,[2] which converts the electricity to a higher voltage (with the trade-off being a corresponding reduction in the output current).[2]. Rotate the armature and check that the contact-breaker assembly does not foul its housing. Stored in the dry. You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. Will It Spark? Turn the armature in its proper direction of rotation until the contact-breaker points are just starting to open on one of the cam lobes. You should not let a Wico X go out the door if it will not jump more than 1/4" because something is wrong. Others have an earth brush between the main body of the magneto and an earth track of the armature. I can never stress this enough to people who try to test out their mags. i'm an asshole, you probably shouldn't listen to me. Thorspark magneto ignition repair FAQ - Sussex motorcycles It should fit properly in only one precise position. The reading will probably be a fraction of an ohm. It uses a magneto and a transformer to make pulses of high voltage for the spark plugs.The older term "high-tension" means "high-voltage".Used on many cars in the early 20th century, ignition magnetos were largely replaced by induction coil . All Check for any dirty marks on the paper. MochetVelo Some original units are still in service today. With some magnetos, the main-body earth brush is accessible with the magneto in situ. NEWS FLASH - March 2020 As you will understand, with the Covid-19 pandemic shutting down most normal business, we are not able to despatch orders for the time being. ring. and other magneto parts. If the coil has been in service since the magneto was new there is a good chance the insulation has started to break down, allowing voltage to track. i totally agree. Capacitors are replaced with ones that have a longer life expectancy and greater reliability. rectifiers (and wiring diagrams) of use to all She was factory fitted with a Morris Vedette MKII engine which has a lucas rf4 magneto. Nice work. equipment. If the magneto is fitted with, or about to be fitted with, a Brightspark EasyCap, you can perform some basic checks on the EasyCap. An importance cause of field strength reduction is the removal of the magnet from its normal situation without fitting a keeper, a device designed to maintain the integrity of the magnetic circuit. I have seen several condensers during that time whichwork for the half but will not generate the field collapse andfire the plug . I do not think this is your issue because the timing light does not trigger. Check that the felt pad in the end of the screw holding together the two blocks of the points assembly is present and good, and soak it in oil. Make a note of the reading; youll need to refer to it later. Great post! Used on many cars in the early 20th century, ignition magnetos were largely replaced by induction coil ignition systems. Also, many magnetos (especially twin- and multi-cylinder devices) are provided internally with safety gaps, typically of 6.5 to 7.5 mm, and if the magneto cant find an outlet through whatever is or isnt connected to it, it happily sparks the safety gaps instead. that old problem, the deeply-buried condenser Take a look If the resistance is higher than about 15,000 ohms, it indicates a bad connection. The voltage generated across magneto coils is quite high, in the order of 20,000 volt if no spark plugs are in place. I do not know it all but I will try to help. Contact-breaker Re-installation and Points Setting. Come join the discussion about performance, restorations, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! I'm working on a Lucas Mag right now for the first time and this is extremely helpful. We would therefore strongly advise against ever trying to make a magneto strike a spark across a gap of anything in excess of 7.5 mm in fresh air. If you can't get even 1/4", I would be worried it would not work under the stress of being in the combustion chamber. If your magneto does not have an EasyCap but it fitted with a condenser buried in the armature, then it is impossible to check the condition of the condenser, while the armature is assembled, without specialised equipment. . not load correctly in the translated versions of the pages. Lucas Magneto 1930 - 1940. classic vehicles generally. themselves. Magneto Parts Archives - Rex's Speed Shop Check the condition of the HT lead(s) and plug-cap(s) and replace where necessary. Because the magneto has low voltage output at low speed, starting an engine is more difficult. Turn the armature in its proper direction of rotation until the contact-breaker points are just starting to open on the other cam lobe. found elsewhere on the internet or in the Do not skimp on quality with pick-up brushes. I'll try the 3/16" gap test. sequences illustrating the importance of (Japanese) If you have a Megger or similar insulation tester, set it to test at 500V. With your multimeter set to display resistance and connected to the opposite faces of the circuit board of the EasyCap (and with your fingers touching no more than one side of the circuit), the meter reading should climb up from a low value until it goes off the scale (OL). or. Franaise Deutsch This expediential degradation may appear to be sudden when the fault occurs. Downloadable drawings, all for free, for However, dont make them lop-sided. To all you guys with Lucas magnetos with problems, get ready to see it fully functional for about $23 shipped, along with a little work in your garage. The engine needed some attention, which it has now received, but I had to take the magneto off. insulators; and timing discs. Measure the resistance between the magneto body and terminal in the plug cap. As the voltage of the primary winding rises to several hundred volts,[3][4] the voltage on the secondary winding rises to several tens of thousands of volts, since the secondary winding typically has 100 times as many turns as the primary winding.[3].
Coretec Flooring Problems,
Osrs Guardians Of The Rift Solo,
Articles L
lucas magneto not sparking